Day 2: Justice in the State & Individual

•           Questions/Review

•           General Strategy

•           Minimal State… Luxurious State… 3 Classes

•           Justice in the State

•           Three parts of the soul

•           Justice in the individual

•           Ideal Patterns

•           Lovers of Wisdom

•           Who Should Rule?

 •           Reading Assignment:

For next time, please read chapters XIII, XIV, XV, XVI, XVIII & XIX; XXIII to XXVIII

•           If you are using a different translation, read up until the end of Book VII.

General Strategy

•         “What is Justice?” gets broken down into two questions:

–    (1) What is it for an individual to be just?

–    (2) What is it for a state to be just?

•         How should these questions be approached?

Minimal State

•           According to Socrates, why does the state come into existence?  What are its origins?

•           What sorts of things do the people in the minimal state do?

•           How do they do what they do, and why?

Luxurious State

•           Why does the minimal state grow into something larger?

•           What sorts of things will people want?

•           What will those wants lead to?

The Classes of the State

•           What sorts of characteristics will the guardians have?  Why?

•           Why do the guardians get sub-divided into two different classes?

•           How many classes are there in the luxurious state?

 Justice in the State

•           What are the virtues of each class?

•           What makes the luxurious state just?

Justice in the State

•           How will children be raised?  Why?

•           What is the role of women?  Why?

•           Will there be slaves?  Why?

From the State to the Individual: Three Parts of the Soul

•           What does Socrates mean by soul?

–      Psyche and personality

•           How is reason shown to be different from appetites?

•           How is reason shown to be different from spirit.

•           What is the general strategy for differentiating parts of the soul?

Justice in the Individual

•           What is justice in the individual?

•           How is it desirable for its results?

•           What is just soul compared to?

•           Why is the just soul desirable for its own sake?

Ideal Patterns

•           Does Socrates think that the just state can be realized in this world?  Why or why not?

•           Does Socrates think developing a view on justice is useful?  Why or why not?

Lovers of Wisdom

•           How does Socrates describe philosophers?

•           What is it to have philosophical attitude as opposed to a philodoxical attitude?

Who Should Rule?

•           What one change would Socrates make to bring existing states closer to the ideal of justice?

•           Outline of the argument for why philosophers should rule:

–      (i) One must have wisdom to rule well.

–      (ii) Those who seek wisdom are called philosophers.

–         (iii) Therefore, philosophers should rule.

•           Why is democracy rejected?  Why does Socrates argue that it is a bad form of government?

For Reflection

•           What do you think of Plato’s views on justice in the state (so far)?

•           What do you think of Plato’s views on justice in the individual (so far)?